Dark Times in Darke County - WWII Remembered
by the members It all started with this message from Leland Rice, 8 March 2003
of the Darke County E-mail List
It all started with this message from Leland Rice, 8 March 2003:
Now, let me take you back 60+ years, to the WWII era. I remember that we saved our old tin cans and why. What I cannot, for the life of me, remember is why we were asked to save old cooking fats. Can someone please refresh my memory?
The first answer came from Mason Ripp:
I remember this well! The fat was used for making explosives. Go to GOOGLE and ask for: "Cooking fat" +explosives and you will find many articles about this.
Then Kay came in with:
I remember those days as if it was yesterday. We lived in Cincinnati at that time and remember taking our saved fat to our corner store and giving it to the butcher.
I remember the rationing of many grocery staples as well as shoes, etc. I believe I still have a ration stamp book and maybe one of my parents gas ration stamp books. One book was given to each member of the family. I also wore an identification tag around my neck.
Marilyn Shields said:
This link takes you to a WWII poster site showing a skillet of grease being poured out and bombs flying forward: http://www.state.nh.us/ww2/ww14.html
I had not heard of this before. I am a "baby boomer" from the Korean War era....
The history channel's "Mail Call" just had a bit on the fat issue as all fat contains something like 10 or 20% glycerine. Which is very useful in making things go BOOM
And Leland posed another question:
Did anyone else have a "Victory" bike? Also known as a "skinny tire". That was my first one. Got it for my eighth birthday!!
By the way, my "training wheels" were my dad's legs, until about half a block from home. THEN I was on my own!!
Jean Herbert got things really moving on the 9th with:
I remember saving tinfoil; I remember being in the 2nd Grade of school and still wearing "baby" white hightop shoes (I so wanted some brown lowtop shoes), we recycled everything that we could (tin cans, glass, old iron, paper, fat, cloth, string, etc); we even stood up with hand over our hearts when they played the national anthem at the Saturday matinee. To me, it was our finest hour.
Jo Kester gave us this one:
All of you are probably too young to know this but prior to Hitler coming to power and his followers saluting him with their arm extended, saying Heil Hitler, we used to begin saying the Pledge of Allegiance with our hand over our heart and then extend our arm when we said "to the flag, etc". I don't remember the exact year when we began saying the entire Pledge with our hand over our heart.
When our son was just a little guy his dad would occasionally take him to a UD basketball game and of course the National Anthem was always played before the game and then everyone would scream, "Yeah". Well, the first time they sang the National Anthem at his school, probably his first day of school, he just assumed everyone was supposed to yell, "Yeah" but unfortunately for him, he was the only one who did. His teacher, a little old nun told me about it. She thought it was hilarious.
And Jean Herbert said:
I remember pealing it off of chewing gum wrappers and saving it in a ball. I also remember the joy, I would get if I found a discarded cigarette pack because the tinfoil pealed off so much easier. I remember the election of 1944--I thought Mr. Dewey and Hitler were related because of those little mustashes. I couldn't figure out why anyone would vote for that terrible man that we were fighting. I cried when President Roosevelt died because he was the only president that I had ever known (his picture was on my class room wall with Washington and Lincoln). I knew that we had to win the war or die.
It's amazing the things that you remember; I may see things from a different perspective now but the feelings about them have not changed. I know now that the Pledge does not say "one nation, INVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all." But I said it proudly because I was very proud to be an America.
And Clif Elliot went on:
I remember Victory Bikes, saving aluminum foil. I remember everyone adding their foil to build a large roll that sat in one of our unused bedrooms in our huge old farm house. I also remember everybody driving 35 MPH to save gas! Maybe not a bad idea to employ today with the high gas rates!
Roger Rhoads reminded us of Civil Defense:
One of my earliest War memories is the blackouts. At a predetermined time everyone would turn out all their lights, practicing so that enemy bombers could not see our farm house at night. Civil Defense workers would prowl the country roads searching for anyone's home that showed a light. Now that I think about it, how could Hitler's bombers get all he way from Europe to our place in the center of the U.S. and why would he want to bomb a wheat field?
Clif came in again:
I remember v-mail! As a child I wrote my brother a letter weekly for years while he was in the European Theater. Unfortunately none have survived. If we had them they would be something to read! My brother often talks of them when we get together. We also gathered milkweed pods! I also remember the day my brother came home from the war. We didn't have any idea he was coming. When he walked in the door my Mother nearly had a heart attack.
Doris Aultman posed a couple good questions:
With all the World War II talk. Does anyone remember gathering milkweed pods? I was in grade school but I remember collecting them and putting them in a produce bag so they could dry.
Also no one mentioned V mail. My cousins in the service sent their letters from overseas by V mail.
Roger Rhoads gave us some insight:
For those of you who do not remember, milk weed pods were collected to harvest the kapok inner silk and used for filling life vests. As for V mail, the sender would write the message on a special form which was then microfilmed to reduce space/weight and flown across the Atlantic. At the other end the microfilm was photographically enlarged, printed and mailed to the recipient.
And Jean Herbert reminded us of the "Stars":
My husband, Jim, remembers collecting milkweed pods when he was in grade school. Does anyone remember the stars that people hung in their windows to indicate that they had a family member in the military and a gold one if they had lost a family member while serving.
Rita Moss talked about those first Margarine packs:
Okay I remember, my favorite job was taking the margarine (that looked like lard) and mixing the color so we could pretend it was butter, tin foil, Gold star mothers, my aunt had one in her window for my older cousin who was killed in Italy and one for her son which I believe might have been a different color who was fighting in France, my dad was an air raid warden and wore this snazzy helmet My Easter coat which had epaulets and I wore a cap that looked just like a solder's that I could fold and put it under my epaulets!!! Singing "Marizy Doats" with my older sibling and her friends, crying when we listened to Lux Theater and other radio shows with war time themes!!!! Watching my dad get ready to go to war and then seeing his disappointment when he was told that men over a certain age and with three daughters couldn't go. My mom and aunts putting pancake make-up on their legs because they had no stockings to wear, Joan Crawford shoulder pads, the ration coupons for meat and watching John Wayne and the rest of the Hollywood actors winning the war!!! Listening to Roosevelt on the radio to hear how American and the Allies were getting them old Nazis good! Shooting Japs and dropping bombs on them " Old Japs" Playing war!( Yes I was a little bit of a tomboy". Yes those were the "good old days" , but were they????? Maybe they seemed that way because we were more innocent then
Jean Herbert brought out our patriotism:
I remember many of those things but I was 7 yrs old so my memory is not as good as some but I can still sing Marzy Doats, and God Bless America, America the Beautiful, My Country tis of Thee and the National Anthem correctly. I was so well taught the Pledge in school (Invisible and all) that I still stumble over the words "under God" as it is now said. I remember V-J day. it rained and the people were literally dancing in the streets, horns were blowing, all the church bells in town were ringing and I was beating on a pan with a big spoon, getting wet (even those awful white hightop baby shoes that I wore) and not caring. I still believe that it was our finest hour as a nation/people.
And Sandi Moody went back to the "fiddies":
I remember on Sunday after church, the treat for the week was going for a ride in the car. My dad, back from the war, used to sing songs about the Army Air Corp... "up in the air, army air corp.. up in the air pilots true..." I still know all those words.
And 'down in the meadow in a iddy biddy pool swam 3 little fiddies and a mommy fiddie too'.
The green scratchy, smelly blanket he brought home with him... it was one of his prized possessions... Maybe a soldier's security blanket.
Leland gave it one more little push:
First, those of you who lived on a farm during those years have a memory that us city kids don't. This is the first time I've heard about the milk weed pods. Sounds typical, though. Does anyone know, for sure, that they were actually used?
Black-outs..The neighborhood Air Raid Warden (with that cool white helmet) would come walking down the street, blowing his whistle and calling for "lights out" ever so often. (Again, it never occurred to us, either, to wonder just how the German aircraft would ever get that far and then find Springfield, Ohio. We just did what we were told.)
Victory Stamps for War Bonds..10 cents bought one stamp and, when you had $17.50 worth of stamps on your sheet, you took them to the bank and were issued a $25 savings bond that took 10 years to mature. That was some kind of heavy interest. Try and get it today. I don't know what E Bonds go for, nor what the mature rate is, but I'd bet it's less.
V-J Day... Greenville, (I don't remember it raining, but I wasn't quite 10 at the time) Broadway was a mad-house of cars and noise. I remember one car that had the trunk open, and in it was a kid with a huge (and I do mean HUGE) bell that he never stopped ringing! They were right in front of us. We circled from one end of Broadway to the other and back about 4 times, then went home. He never stopped ringing that bell!! He must've been deaf for weeks afterwards!
Jean Herbert answered that in part:
They used the fibers from the milkweed pods in the inside of lifejackets( for boyancy). My husband went to school in Richmond, IN and their class would go out and collect them. I lived in Winchester, IN and it rained.
And Sandi had something really different:
Do you guys remember making Holly Hock angels to watch over the men during the war? Or was this something Grandma cooked up? All I know is I had an army of angels every day those Holly Hocks bloomed!
Edward Jones had a different slant on the milk weeds:
While I missed the actual "war time" (I was a post war baby), my mother used to tell me you could eat the milkweed spikes if you picked them before they got hit by the sun. Once they saw the sun, they started producing a poison which made them bad to eat. However, I never figured out how to find the milkweed spikes before the sun hit them (I always thought you had to know where they were growing the year before and dig them up - not real sure though).
And Carol told us:
My Dad sang the same songs and brought home the same green blankets, my mother told me that they were woolen.
Richard Folkerth finally decided to join in:
I spent the first few years of WW II in Washington, DC. Just around the block from the Supreme Court. In a basement apartment. I was seven on 7 December 1941.
We had air raid practices. Big time. My Mother once dashed around the block ... under an Air Raid alert ... to scoop me up from the drugstore where I had taken shelter when the alarm sounded. Left my little sister in the crib while she did this. Clearly, Mom really was alarmed.
And we collected 'tin foil'. Rolled it in big balls. Then we kids sold 'em to the local junk dealers. So many pennies per pound. Wish I could remember that number. But I do remember the junk dealer who told me that my ball of tinfoil clearly could not weigh that much .. that I must have put some lead in the middle. So he offered me half the going rate. I was a kid. I took it. Even though I knew my tinfoil ball was pure tinfoil all the way to the center.
We got to see FDR in his limo as he cruised thru the city. Pretty neat, even for a modern-day Republican.
And roller-skate down Capitol Hill. It REALLY is a hill. Try it sometime on rollerskates.
The Capitol grounds made a nice picnic area on Sundays. We would feed the squirrels.
Easter was egg-rolling time on the White House lawn. I doubt that they do that these days. Too bad.
Jo Kester came through with a real bag full of memories:
I was a young girl when WWII started. My older brother had been in the Ohio National Guard and the year before the war began the ONG became part of the regular army, the Ohio 37th Division. In the Fall of 1940 he left for Hattiesburg, MS. They all rode in those big Army trucks from Dayton to Hattiesburg! Very uncomfortable, I'm sure. There was always great excitement when he would come on leave or furlough.
In May, 1942 he came home for the last time before being sent overseas. On his last day at home, he walked me back to school after lunch, holding my hand all the way. I was so proud of him. At this time I was 12 and in the 7th grade. We weren't to see him again until I was 16 and a junior in high school!
During the war, my mother worked at Wright Field and was able to get a large map which was pinned on a wall in our dining room. We kept track on this map of the supposed troop movement throughout the South Pacific through newspaper articles and his letters. After my Mother passed away, I discovered she still had that map, folded away for safe keeping. She had also saved all the letters my brother wrote, plus those of my other brother, who had joined the Marines toward the end of the war.
If there was a letter from my brother, I would call my Mother at work and read the letter to her. We all devoured every word of his letters and of course we all wrote to him at least once a week. We had the emblem hanging in our window designating a member of our family was in the Service. When my other brother joined up my Mother drew and colored a second blue star.
VJ Day in Aug, 1945 was a wonderful day!! And that evening everyone went downtown. I guess we all just had to be together to celebrate! But it would be October until my hero was home! And the day he arrived home was a roller coaster ride! My brother, along with thousands of other soldiers had been sent to Camp Atterbury in Indianapolis to be discharged from the Army and of course they all wanted to board the first transportation available. No cell phones in those days to call family members so they would know where to meet them. We heard rumors there were Greyhound buses coming in Camp Atterbury so we all rushed down to the Greyhound bus station on First St. But when he wasn't on any of the buses and we were told no more buses were due in that night we were saddened but then we heard a train was coming in from Indianapolis! We scurried down Ludlow St to the Train Depot on Sixth St. We had been there many times before either greeting my brother hello or tearfully saying good bye.
We scanned the faces of all those soldiers coming down those steps from the tracks and there he was! I had my big brother back and he was home to stay! And the stories he had to tell! Many the night we sat at the dinner table just listening and I can remember doing dishes at almost midnight, I didn't want to miss anything.
I recall the hosiery worn before the war were silk stockings and it was
"silk" that went to war, probably to make parachutes. Nylon was the
man-made fiber that was invented to take the place of silk. I believe nylon
stockings were stronger than silk stockings in that they didn't "run" as easily as silk.
I recall using the leg makeup and putting just enough depending the length of
dress or skirt and it was great unless you had gym class the next day and hadn't
washed it off. At my high school we wore short dresses with matching bloomers
and no way to hide the fact you had leg makeup on your legs.
Roger Payne gave a lesson in pre-war history:
I can identify with all of the comments regarding WWII. Regards the one about Hitler's bombing the U.S., there is a little known fact that appeared in recent years of info obtained from Nazi sources. As a matter of fact, Hitler had his aircraft engineers designing an eight engine bomber that was to be able to deliver bombs to the east coast of the U.S., probably New York and Washington, among other places, and be able to return to Germany. Fortunately, the war ended before he was able to get it off the drawing board. Was also probably stretched out on technical resources, etc. I think the air raid precaution bit was just to show we were doing our bit in being prepared, in case we ever had to go through what the Brits did. Thank God, it never got that far. I am sometimes surprised that they didn't have the atom bomb developed and ready for use before we did. Probably because of limited availability of plutonium or other similar elements. I think they had the scientific brains, like Von Braun. Being 9 years old in 1941 I remember all of those things, like meat rations and coupons, War Bonds and 10 cent savings stamps, and getting into a Sat. movie by bringing old rubber goods for recycling. I think that shoes were on the ration list too. We didn't worrying about gas rationing because we didn't have a car. In addition to playing the National Anthem before movies in theaters they also showed the V for Victory, with the first four notes of Beethoven's 5th Symphony and synchronized those with the Morse code for V, 3 dots and a dash.
My father never went into the service because he was 41 when the war started, and worked in a factory that was making war use items, I don't remember what.
Those are the interesting things I remember, aside from the ones everyone else has already mentioned.
Winter Park FL.
And then Roger Rhoads remembered:
One of my earliest life memories is my standing in front of a "Green Eye" Zenith console radio (one of those big pieces of furniture that did the same job as an itty bitty pocket radio we now use) and screaming for my aunt Bess to come to the living room. The War was over! The War was over!
Sandra got back to the hosiery business:
I was talking to my mother last night and reading her all the WWII memories we've been sharing. She got to giggling like a young girl and asked if I remembered her "nylon hose".
Women could not by nylon hosiery during the war because all the nylon went to making military articles. Dad was in the Army Air Corp stationed in Miami Beach. Mom had a job as a teller in a bank in Miami. Every morning as part of her getting ready for work routine, she and a neighbor (also a military wife) would meet to paint a 'seam' down the back of their legs to look like they were wearing nylons (remember the hose with seams?)! The woman who could draw really straight lines (usually with an eyebrow pencil) was in great demand!
On days when they wore casual clothing, they would paint ankletts (short socks). All was well until the afternoon thundershowers. Their 'leg wear' would melt and run down their legs!
Dad was not allowed to stay with the family. The Army Air Corp had rented Miami Beach Hotels to house the men. To make it seem they were living like enlisted men, they could not use the elevators in the hotels. They had to climb the stairs to their rooms.
The beautiful beaches of North Miami and Hollywood that we know today were bombing ranges during the war.
Sandra Hollister Moody
Mason came back for a while:
I was 12 years old at the time of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. My family and I had driven to Greenville for Sunday dinner with some cousins, and the news on the radio that day was electrifying. I remember sitting close to the radio that whole day. This proved to be my means of following the war for the next few years: I listened to Peter Grant, on the WLW 11:00 pm news, followed by Gregor Zeamer (sp?), who had lived in Germany, almost every night.
Our school participated in everything most schools did: paper drives, scrap metal and foil drives, cooking fat collection, and War Bond Saving Stamps. We bought one 10 cent stamp each week and pasted it into a booklet. It took 188 stamps to add up to the $18.75 it took to convert to a $25 War Bond, so I doubt if many of us ever filled up the booklets!
I worked in a local drugstore the last couple years of the war, and remember the hassle whenever a new supply of cigarettes arrived. People would flood into the store, wanting more than the two packs per person my boss had decreed; many nasty comments for such a young boy to receive. Other stores, groceries, had the same problems when items such as Hershey's Syrup arrived.
My junior year in high school I bought an old junker (1936 Chevy) and got an "A" sticker for gasoline. I think it was for 2 gallons a week. The Chevy got 6 miles per gallon, so I saved all my "A" stamps so that a couple buddies and I could go for a trip before our senior year started in September of 1945. Came August, the war was over, and NO STAMPS NEEDED! We were so happy the war had ended that I didn't begrudge the loss of the 12 miles per week I could have driven. Besides, the headlights were so dim that we had to get out of the car at night and check to see if they were on.
When the veterans started coming home, many of them just a few years older than I, the stories they told were most interesting; some funny, but many not so funny.
Doris reminded us of a local tragedy:
Since we are still on the World War II Memories, I have a sad note to add.
There was a military plane crash north of Versailles. My mother did not drive, so she had a friend that come and got us and took us to the site. Of course, no one could get near. I think all we saw was fire and smoke.
Along that line there were two more military crashes close to me. One was in a woods on what is now Horatio-New Harrison Rd and the other on Gettysburg-Webster Rd also in a woods. If I remember correctly there was only the pilot in each of these and they were killed.
And Ruth finished it:
The plane crash north of Versailles was near my home. All aboard were killed. It was a military plane, and one (or two) of the airmen who flew "thirty Seconds over Tokyo" was killed in that crash. A sad note, when you think he survived the bombing of Tokyo and got back to the States, and that he had to die that way.
Norita Moss finished her contribution with this:
Just a few more thoughts, I remember several of my older sister's friends being the envy of all of us with white head scarves they made out of parachute silk. I think they may gotten them from military relatives or boy friends.
I also remember the P-Coats that the sailors wore ,being worn by my sister and her friends. They were the teenage rage along with the saddle shoes, sweaters, pleated plaid skirts, and dad's white shirt worn over blue jeans. I couldn't wait till I was old enough to have a pageboy hairdo ( I had hair that was curly and looked like a brush never touched it) Sadly when my sister would try to give me that page boy look it never stayed!!!!!
Closing with the Bob Hope theme song " Thanks for the Memories!
Norita Shepherd Moss
Roger Rhoads put in his last word:
My wife's father returned from the Navy in 1945 (drafted when he was 38! and never got on a ship). He brought with him his wool pea coat, a heavy canvas sea bag with his name stenciled on it and the olive drab scratchy wool blanket. They are still family keepsakes.
And Kay finished hers with:
I remember so many of what everyone has written and even more. I had mentioned some of them previously.
As I was just a very young girl at that time, one of the important things of my youth was bubble gum. It was a very lucky child to be able to buy no more than five pieces when the store owner was fortunate to get a box of the very scarce item. Word spread very quickly from one child to another and in no time the box was empty.
While I was reading about the plane crash near Versailles there were planes being deployed from Wright-Pat flying over our house.
Every time one flies over, I think I am glad you are ours and God speed.
Audrey finished the list with these memories:
My mother [Rita Marie (Lehmann) Shields b 1913] repaired nylon hosiery for ladies during and after war time. She had a small cylinder of metal and a small stitching needle with a hook on one end. This demanded concentration and intricate work as she would pick up the run where it ended and take it all the way back to where it began and then sew the loose ends together. I can still see her sitting in an easy chair each evening repairing hosiery.
Also, those greenish wool army blankets were probably made at the Orr Felt and Blanket Co. in Piqua, Miami Co., OH where many of my aunts and uncles worked during wartime. I still have a number of blankets made there in that time period.
Thank you to all who have shared their memories.
OTHER THINGS CAME INTO THE DISCUSSION
I grew up on a Navy base. I would imagine (it being the military) that things are still done the same as 30 years ago.
Every day when they raised and lowered the flag, they sounded Retreat and everyone stopped wherever they were, turned towards the area where they knew the flag was being raised, put their hand over their heart, and waited until the last note sounded before resuming our activities. I remember playing in a field at the end of the base with other kids. When dusk would fall and the bugle notes reached us, we all silently and respectfully did as our parents were doing all over the base. It was a requirement and it had been explained to us that to not do so was to show disrespect to our flag and therefore disrespect our parents and ourselves.
When Dad retired, civilian life was such a shock. I really missed that routine. One of my favorite memories of my childhood, was standing in a field in Hawaii with my friends, our hands over our hearts, all turned towards the flag that we could not see but knew was slowly being lowered, the sun low in the sky, the shadows long, and that last clear note slowly fading in the air.
That is what I think of every time I place my hand over my heart.
And Leland answered with
Yes, Karen it's still done the same way, at least on the bases outside of Spain. (We have always been "using" them here.) I retired almost 29 years ago (Air Force) and, just before doing so, I had the unfortunate duty of reporting two young Airmen to their Commander for not standing tall and saluting the flag at Retreat.
You know what? The Spanish always comment on how respectful Americans are when, at baseball and football games, the National Anthem is played and everyone stands with their hands over their hearts, hats off and silent. That's when WE really show our patriotism. Well, I can never remember wanting to be anything but a "soldier" and it was one of the very first things my dad taught me. During WWII The Anthem was played prior to the movie, so we got lots of chances to practice.
Yes, I remember saving tinfoil. Do you remember pealing it off the inner chewing gum wrappers? Mom had a cigar box and all of the old tin foil went in there. I don't think we ever did fill it, because it was still in the kitchen when the war was over.
Dianna had this to say:
Thanks, to all of you, I am not old enough to have been a part of all that you are remembering, but I feel that we may all have some partriotic memories, of how we feel about and what we have/will do for our country - God Bless America, if we will but bless God.
Irene also appreciated the memories:
Thanks to all of you for sharing your memories. As a 50's baby, I am a product of the 60's and 70's. However, I work with people who are mostly around 25. Recently one asked me what a transistor radio was. I laughed and told her to start watching American Dreams so they can know about my "youth." But as a history buff, it is nice for someone to reminisce about times just a bit "before my time." Thanks for the stories.
Karen expressed what most of us think:
When I heard on the news that many schools no longer have a flag in the room or have the kids say the Pledge of Allegiance, I was stunned. My kids assured me that every morning they salute the flag and say the Pledge.
I was always proud of my father being in the Navy. One thing genealogy has given me was the information that only one generation of my father's ancestors did not serve in one branch of the military or another since the Revolution. I knew that my grandparents had been born in the U.S. but before them I didn't know. Now when I hear the words "Land of the Pilgrm's pride; Land where my fathers' died...", it has a deeper meaning and pride
Karen (former Navy brat!)
And Beckie was going to get her grandfather in on it:
I love the memories. I will have to ask my grandfather to record some down. They lived during this time and he served in World War II, and he just turned 90. If someone could that has the messages all saved. record these down in one message so i can show them to him. I only have ink for one message and I want to share these with him and see what he tells us in return.
I know one thing I would like to see related to these conversations we have. Some one save and record the memories so we can all share them in one final message that is keepable.
Thanks for all the information. I really love hearing about history first hand.
Rebecca wanted the memories to be saved:
Memories like these should be preserved. I wish everyone could read them. They brought tears to my eyes and wonder to my heart. It makes me think what would people today be willing to give up? Walking miles to work, to the store, just think the things that we have that are produced by oil - plastics, containers, clothes, etc.
And Pam answered Richardís question:
I just read your email and thought I would write back and let you know that at least as of 17 years ago they was still doing the Easter egg hunt at the White House!
I lived on Andrews A.F.B. then moved to Dunkirk Md - we moved to New Mexico 17 years ago - but I know when we still lived back there they were still having the egg hunts. I always thought it would be kinda neat to attend one, but never did. We did tour the White House, Smithsonian, and all the monuments, also saw President Ford leaving D.C. in a helicopter when he left office and saw Jimmy Carter and his wife walking in the inauguration parade! - that was a really neat area to live in as far as historical sites and events to see!!
I lived back east all my life till 1986 when we moved out here - I never did get to see the Statue of Liberty - I sure wish I did! Probably never will now - sad!
Just thought you would enjoy knowing they was still doing it at least thru 1986 - don't know about now?????
AND IT WAS ALL SUMMED UP WITH THIS MESSAGE BY JEAN HERBERT:
But they weren't all dark times. There were proud times, sad times, happy times, rough times, lonely times, and some very scary times. And we came thru beautifully.